Why More Leads Won't Save Your Agency (Adam O'Leary​​​​​​​)
 

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Jesse Gilmore
Hello and welcome to Leverage for Growth. Today we're going to talk about why more leads won't save you, and what actually breaks when agencies try to scale. I'm joined by Adam O'Leary, founder of Scale with Partners. Adam, can you tell us a little bit about Scale with Partners? Who do you help, and how?

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Adam O'Leary
Absolutely, thanks for having me on, Jesse. What we do at Scale with Partners is help agencies secure partnerships that send referrals their way on a consistent basis. What happens a lot of the time with agencies is that they view partnerships as almost

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Adam O'Leary
luck, where random referrals come through the door. What we actually do is embed your sales process, your product, or your service offering into other people's businesses. And that will typically drive two, three, even four

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Adam O'Leary
high-quality referrals for each partner every single year. So if you have 10, 20, 30 partners, you can see how quickly this grows.

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Jesse Gilmore
In one of our conversations you talked about getting up to 40 appointments per week, and I thought, all right, you're going to need some systems to scale at that. That got me thinking about our actual topic. So what happens when it works too well? You've probably had it happen before. What happens to the agency when they get flooded? Can you talk us through that a little bit?

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Adam O'Leary
Absolutely. This is one of the biggest pains I have in my business, because of the way that we set ourselves up.

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Adam O'Leary
Instead of doing regular lead generation, like sending out cold emails, when you have partners you're talking about consistent recurring traffic coming to you every single week. So what ends up happening is the clients we work with get too busy. That's really the biggest problem. They get way, way too busy. And if their systems aren't structured properly, they have to start turning partners off, telling them, hey, right now is not a good time. That's a bad thing to tell a partner, because partners are trusting you. You're embedded in their sales process. They need to assume that every single person they send your way, you're going to be able to help. If you have to start turning people away, that's a very bad thing. And this is the reason you and I have become best friends, Jesse, because you're all about scaling the business and creating those systems underneath. If you have those systems in place, what you can do is crazy. It's a straight shot up. Look at Facebook ads: Facebook can shut down your account. YouTube, same thing. Ads get more expensive, you risk your account getting shut down, you risk all these different costs. With cold outreach, that's just getting killed every single year. People get happy about a 1% response rate right now. LinkedIn, all that other stuff, every year you have diminishing returns. The only thing I've seen after doing this for the last 10 years that consistently grows each and every single year is partnerships. It's the only thing I've seen.

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Jesse Gilmore
A lot of times I talk with clients in a discovery call process, and one of the first things I do is figure out where the actual bottleneck is. It's usually not what they think it is. One of the questions I ask is, let's just say you got so much demand, you get 10,000 appointments, tons of appointments. What's the first thing to break? That gets people to really start thinking. Okay, if I did get flooded, well, client onboarding. And I ask, why client onboarding? And they say,

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Jesse Gilmore
asset collection. And immediately I'm starting to figure out where the actual issues are. It's really cool when you can turn marketing on and not have to turn it off, because of those systems. But it sucks when you have to turn it off.

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Adam O'Leary
It's a real pain for people. With agencies especially, they go through this cycle of ups and downs. One month they have too many clients, and for many, that's only about three to five clients as their breaking point. They hit that level, they have to shut off marketing, and then it's a constant cycle of going up and down. That's a really bad position to be in as an agency, because if you have a true, genuine service that can help people, the last thing in the world you'd want to do is stop telling people about it. That's the last thing in the world you'd want to do. This is honestly why systems are so important. If you're overworking yourself, if you're really stressed out, if your wife is saying, look, babe, I need you to spend more time with me, those are bad signals. Those are really, really bad signals. It's worth taking a look at before you start scaling.

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Jesse Gilmore
One of the great things about AI is that it can look across a lot of different

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Jesse Gilmore
client case studies to find patterns. One of the things we did a year ago was start looking at what made the clients we worked with able to have that kind of exponential growth. Warren was one of them, going from $15,000 per month to $100,000 per month in nine months. I started looking at it, and it wasn't the most obvious thing until I saw it, and then I couldn't unsee it. It was the offer. A lot of it came down to the offer, and what we at Leverage for Growth, using the method we

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Jesse Gilmore
developed, call a minimum viable solution. Least amount of effort on your end, greatest results for the client. And when you price according to value, that's the icing on the cake with a repackage. Have you found, through your own experience with the agencies that were able to scale as fast as you allow them to, that it came down to the offer? Or what were some of the things that signified, yeah, you're ready for the floodgates?

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Adam O'Leary
Offer is 100% the first thing I look at. More than anything else, it's the offer, because if the offer isn't intact... let me break it down. It's super simple. So with an offer,

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Adam O'Leary
if a partner refers you, that partner is putting a lot of trust in you to make sure you actually do right by them. If your service takes a year or two to genuinely start seeing any sort of results, partners lose patience very quickly. There's no instant gratification for them. So the first thing I always look for is that instant gratification, because the best thing in the universe that can happen with a partner is that they send you a client, you close the client, usually something nice and easy that gets them a simple quick win. Once they send that client over, if you can get a result within the first 30 days, preferably the first three, as quick as humanly possible, that allows you to get great testimonials for yourself. Those testimonials and case studies are now part of your partner's community. You've proven that this actually works for the partner.

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Adam O'Leary
So that's one thing. The second thing it does is help the partner look at it and say, whoa, okay, this is really good. This actually works. And here's the real trick I always look for that makes a grand slam partner. A grand slam partner is not necessarily somebody where you say, I'll send you a referral and you send me a referral. That can work, and it works great for some types of partners. But there are other types of partners, and a lot of the time what they're really looking for is somebody who can help them, the partner, get better case studies for themselves, help them upsell the client they sold you, retain that client, reduce churn on their side. All of those are very important indicators. If you're able to help a partner do those three things, they won't send you just two referrals a year. They will send you all of their clients. This is what I call an embedded partnership.

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Jesse Gilmore
I love it. It's a different type of model than what most people are used to, because a lot of people think referrals are like rolling the dice. But there actually is a systematic way to build that trust and embed it, which is a beautiful thing. One of the things I've found, at least on the coaching side for Niche in Control, is with businesses that suddenly get flooded with business, one of the first things I always ask is, how many hours a week are you working right now? And sometimes they say, oh, I don't know, 50, 60. And I say, oh, okay. Are you working on the weekends? Yeah.

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Jesse Gilmore
Do you have a family? Yeah. Do they like you working on the weekends? No. Oh, okay. Simple questions, and they go, yeah, I really need to figure that out. A lot of times it's just happenstance. Sometimes people feel as though in order for the business to grow, they have to sacrifice other areas of their life. From my personal experience, and people who have followed the show long enough know this, my first businesses were built that way. I had to make a really big mental shift and realize that all parts of your life can grow and rise at the same time. You don't have to sacrifice everything for the business to succeed. So hours is one of the things I see on the coaching side. Another one is mindset. If I ask, what are your growth goals? What are you trying to accomplish? And they say, oh, I don't know, 20% growth. And I say, you're at $500K

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Jesse Gilmore
right now. $600K excites you? And they say no. So at least double it. And that starts getting them thinking about it. I think it's because they're so close to the trees they can't see the forest. One of the greatest things about systems, and that inside-out approach we do with clients, is that they start to actually see a future and understand a lot more about vision. Have you seen that as well? That the clients who are ready for the floodgates have a different time duration? They're not focused on the day or the week, but the quarter, the year, the decade. Have you noticed that?

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Adam O'Leary
Absolutely. What it comes down to with partnerships is that we can't start today and have you seeing money at the door tomorrow. The way I look at partnerships is this. A standard client, let's say you're selling a 12-month contract at $50K.

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Adam O'Leary
That's a $50,000 contract you're going for as an agency. When you're working with partners, these are almost always six- or even potentially seven-figure deals, because it's not just the one referral they're sending your way. Usually after the first one, it's the second, third, fourth, fifth, and then it's a domino effect from there. These are much longer term. Usually the partners and the clients I'm working with,

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Adam O'Leary
they're looking at the next six to 12 months. So what are the first wins we're going to have in the first six months? What you'll see, especially working with us, is that you'll have partner conversations going very early on. We have that down to a science. Then in the first six months, that's typically when you start seeing partner

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Adam O'Leary
promotions. That could be a webinar, or jumping on and speaking to that person's audience. It could just be, hey, let's have you send a referral to test it out, see how it goes, test the waters. You're going to start seeing those within the first six months. After the first six months, what's really cool is that you get good results for them. And it all comes down to that offer. This is why I'm always keen to look at how long your offer is going to take to start seeing results, or what sort of short-term wins we're able to give. For example, I'm able to start lining up partner conversations very quickly with your dream partners, in a very short period of time. So when somebody sends me a potential client, that's what I promise the partner: they will have these conversations going very quickly. The long-term goal is obviously to have that money start hitting the door. But what's great with partnerships is that even after 12 months, or six, let's imagine I set you up, we get this going, we have all these calls going.

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Adam O'Leary
These relationships are yours. That's the coolest part about this. You're able to turn money on and off. You're literally creating a

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Adam O'Leary
floor, I guess is the way to put it. You're creating a floor of revenue, of how many referrals you know are going to be coming in the door, how many potential clients are going to be sent your way. After six months, that floor starts to increase. After nine months, it increases more. After 12, 16, 24, it's just an increasing position. What's great about it is that once you start working with more and more clients, you build a bigger community, and you can start working with bigger and better partners. That's where dreams are made.

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(Both Laughing)

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Jesse Gilmore
That's really cool. I like how you look at the offer and the results, and then how those results impact the partner, and how this compound effect happens. It also reminded me that the offer was one part. The other thing we found as a root cause of having to turn marketing off

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Jesse Gilmore
when you're at capacity is founder dependency. That's a simple term, and maybe people don't really understand it, but it just means the business is totally reliant on the founder. If the founder isn't working, then work doesn't get done, or things stop in some form. One of the quick wins we do at Niche in Control in the first two or three weeks is a really intense time log. In seven days, we can understand what you need to eliminate, automate, delegate, and time block. Very quickly, we take those 50, 60 hours and bring them down to 40, then 32. And all of a sudden they say, I can breathe. Then we start focusing on vision, and it starts changing everything. But the number one thing we look at is founder dependency and starting to remove it. The more we remove founder dependency, the more they can focus on longer duration, and the better decisions they can make for the business, and

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Jesse Gilmore
be set up for more of an active referral program, which is what you're describing. And then, what do you use that time for? Being able to reach out to people on a more personalized, very specific basis, as opposed to the cold email and those types of outreach you were talking about.

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Adam O'Leary
The way I look at it is that business is all about making friends. You either get along with the people you're working with or you don't. It's that simple. And if you get along with all of your partners, good things start to happen.

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Adam O'Leary
What's nice about partnerships, and it's exactly what you're talking about, is being able to lower that threshold. When somebody starts working with us, we look at how many hours you can actually dedicate to this, because partnerships are all about trust. This isn't like you send an email and all of a sudden money comes in the door. You're literally building a friendship with this person. We have a process to make that happen and show how it all works over at Scale with Partners. But what really matters is that once you're able to start stepping back from your business, using your process and everything you do, which I think is fantastic, it's just about scheduling a few calls a week with your favorite people who send you money.

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Adam O'Leary
It's really not complicated. It's something I've done over the last 10 years. I've traveled the world with my wife. We've traveled to over 100 countries together now, and the way we did it was always

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Adam O'Leary
with partnerships. I could schedule a call on a Tuesday at 3 p.m. with one of my friends and say, hey, let's set something up. Then I'd have their assistant and my assistant plan everything, we'd have money hit the door, and that was basically our fun money for the month. We'd do that every week just to keep those processes going. That's what it's all about. To me, it's about enjoying what I do. I don't want to be dealing with cold leads. I don't want to have to convince people why to work with me. If my friends, who have seen my work and the results I get, just tell other people about what I do on a consistent basis, you literally can't be poor. It's that simple. There's always money coming in, because whenever they get a client, you get a client. And if you have 10, 20, 30 of those, whenever any of those 10, 20, 30 get a client, you get a client. It's that simple.

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Jesse Gilmore
If you run an agency, you know the grind. Every client, a custom proposal. Your positioning is all over the place, and there's no clear way to scale. I built the Scalable Agency Accelerator to fix this. It's a seven-step proven system I've used with over 500 agencies to clarify their niche, sharpen their offer, and grow. Right now you can get step one for seven days. You'll define who you serve and lock in your positioning with no guesswork. Start your free trial today. The link is in the show notes.

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Jesse Gilmore
This gets me excited to talk a little bit about what it looks like when you actually are ready.

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Jesse Gilmore
Having the systems in place, or the time to have the conversations with partners, and the fun money, that whole process. You talked a little bit about having time to cultivate those relationships, doing it through a systematic process, and getting yourself ready. On your side, before I start talking about what we've seen, what does ready look like, aside from having some time for it and building those networking partnerships? What else does ready look like?

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Adam O'Leary
For sure. The first thing is making sure that

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Adam O'Leary
you have an offer. An offer that isn't going to take your team 40 hours a week to deliver. It needs to be very simple. Honestly, the easier the better. That is the key. The best thing in the world is if you can sell something that's push-button, where you don't have to do too much. That's the dream. So the first thing is having an offer. The second thing is making sure that offer can really get those results. That's how critical the offer is with partners. The third part is making sure the founder isn't going to break under scale, or at least that they're on track

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Adam O'Leary
to be able to handle the influx that's going to start coming through. As I said, with partnerships, the scary part is that if you start getting a lot of partners, when they send you clients, you have to deliver. That's really important. You can't tell a partner no, or at least you shouldn't. That's just not a good thing. Once you say no once, it's likely they're just not going to send anyone again. It's over. So the second thing is really making sure that as a founder you have those systems in place where you can say yes. Because what we do over here at Scale with Partners is not

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Adam O'Leary
something you can just turn on and turn off. It's something that once you turn it on,

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Adam O'Leary
we're going up together. After six months, 12 months, 18 months, 24 months, you're in a completely different place than you are right now. So those are really the two most critical. The third one usually comes down to personality trait. Analytical people work very, very well with analytical people. So I look at the personality trait of the person, and that becomes very helpful when I'm determining who to start reaching out to. That's the third thing. And the last part, to really make sure you're completely ready to go: the biggest mistake I've seen people make, especially agencies, is that agencies can do a little bit of everything for everyone, because they're usually gluttons for punishment. So what matters is having a hyper-specific niche that you're going after. The reason this is so critical is that if the niche you're going after is broad, let's say I help B2B companies, that's very broad. Are you talking manufacturers, or are you talking coaches and consultants? When you're looking at partnerships, you need to think about it as a circle.

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Adam O'Leary
In every niche, there's a circle of people who also have that same audience as you. For example, Jesse, you're working with agencies. So the only people you should be talking to are people who are hyper-specific and have agencies they're working with, whose community is primarily agencies. So the first thing we do when we're looking for ideal partners, just so you can see the reverse end of this, is if somebody says, oh, we help

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Adam O'Leary
agencies grow, and then we look at their case studies and their testimonials and we see they're also helping coaches, and they're also helping this manufacturing company, and they have all these different things, it's almost an automatic decline for us. We won't even approach that partner, because it's honestly not going to be worth it. If you're not exclusively working with agencies, then

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Adam O'Leary
it's not going to be helpful for us, and our referrals aren't necessarily going to be helpful for you, because your case studies don't align with what we're presenting. That's the key: be granular about who you actually work with. That's where you get your best partners, because if you start associating yourself with partners who work with a little bit of everyone,

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Adam O'Leary
it's like that saying, you are the five people you hang out with. If they're working with a little bit of everyone, you're going to start working with a little bit of everyone. And when you're working with a little bit of everyone, you can't systematize your offer to get consistent results. That's bad, because you need to make sure everybody coming through is somebody you can get results for. That's what partners expect. So that's probably actually more important than the offer. Number one, two, and three is making sure your niche is hyper-defined.

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Jesse Gilmore
I did not pay Adam to say the niche was the most important thing,

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Jesse Gilmore
having a company called Niche in Control.

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(Laughs)

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Jesse Gilmore
That's beautiful. It is so, so true, especially with partnerships. I might go on a random rant here, because you started talking about niches, but when you think about the science of business and you're trying to create predictability, when you minimize the variables in an equation, you have more of a chance of having a consistent result, or predictability built into the business. One of those major variables is the offer, and the other one is who you're serving. There is not a single agency that can deliver the same level of value equally across multiple different types of niches.

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Adam O'Leary
What you're saying right there, I hope every agency listening to this hears that and truly, truly

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Adam O'Leary
takes it in, because it's a mistake I made a lot of times when I was working with different niches. The craziest thing about it is what I was saying about the concept of personality type. I'm talking that granular, understanding who the buyer is. Are they A-type people, are they B-type? Those little details matter, because they get completely different results. The more granular you get on that niche, the better off you're going to be. And it's very easy to understand. I worked a lot with software companies for many years. These were all SaaS companies I was working with.

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Adam O'Leary
And when I was working with SaaS companies, I started to realize that some of the

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Adam O'Leary
founders I worked with,

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Adam O'Leary
they were all SaaS, but they'd be targeting slightly different niches within that. What I started to realize was, oh, wait a minute, my specialty isn't necessarily working with enterprise SaaS. It was this specific type of person that I was good with. So even by category, there are subcategories, and then there are sub-subcategories. I really recommend that if you're not able to know exactly the mentality of the buyer you're thinking of, just take a weekend, go on a walk. Don't even have a phone, just a notebook, and try to think of the people you truly want to work with. The ones where you know for a fact that if that buyer type comes to you, you can get them a result.

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Adam O'Leary
That to me has been probably the most awakening moment I had, because it makes everything so much easier. If you're able to start getting those consistent results, it's like what you're saying: the more variables you remove from the equation, the higher the odds are. So it's just hyper-focusing on that. Jesse, you picked a great name. It's in control.

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(Laughing)

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Jesse Gilmore
On one of the podcasts I was on, someone asked, how did you come up with Niche in Control? And I said, it was actually my wife. She had a cold and we were driving to Dairy Queen so my son could fall asleep in the car, and she was trying to say mission control, and it came out niche in control. And I said, it's perfect. She said, it

[00:28:49:13 - 00:28:58:00]
Jesse Gilmore
stuck with me. And I said, it was perfect, you chose this one. She said, I didn't do it. And then all of a sudden it became more popular, and she said, yeah, I totally made that up.

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Adam O'Leary
The more niched down you are, the more control you have. You nailed it.

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Adam O'Leary
Well, the wife nailed it. You didn't.

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Jesse Gilmore
Yeah, I'll give all the credit to my wife for sure. She'll probably listen to this and say, exactly. Exactly.

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(Laughing)

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Jesse Gilmore
A couple of quick things and then we'll wrap it up with the takeaway. First off, that variable equation talk is really important for people to understand, especially when they're trying to figure out their offer. If you change the offer too much, because AI is the new big thing, or because of these different services somebody else did and now you're going to expand into them... the offer should actually be minimizing, and be based more on your core competence and whatever gets results for clients. The way I also talk about it with my mastermind is that systems are like this: your business is a submarine, and you have a little tiny crack on the top. When you don't have much volume or many clients, that crack isn't going to be a big issue. But when you get flooded with business, similar to what Adam is talking about, the submarine submerges, and that little crack can break the entire business. So it's really important to fix the foundation first. Some of the things I've explained in my book, and things people can do to feel ready on the Niche in Control side, come down to making sure that as you take on more clients, it doesn't increase the founder's hours. If you haven't figured that out yet, you definitely need to, because that's the single crack. The moment the founder is working 60, 80 hour weeks, they lose the vision, they're stuck in the middle, and that becomes the submarine that explodes. Then it's about developing what's called a delegation system, getting everything out of your head and your team's head into systems and procedures, so that as you hire more people you can plug them into a system that's already working. There's more to it than that, but one of the things I started thinking about was Warren going from $15,000 to $100,000 in nine months. Toward the end of it, we started looking at the hiring process and asked, what's taking so long to hire account managers? He started hiring two at a time. He said, one of them after a period of time is just not going to make it. So if I start hiring two at a time,

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Jesse Gilmore
that helped. And that predictability of bringing your team up to independence in the shortest amount of time possible is another one of those things that really helps you turn on the floodgates and not have to turn them off.

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Adam O'Leary
That submarine analogy is bang on. It really is those little cracks. I also love that you talked about the vision, and how agencies... everybody listen to this: you guys are gluttons for punishment. I was for many, many years. It's just the truth. We get so obsessed with what we're doing, especially helping the client, that you're so focused on the client's business you completely forget to focus on your own. That's a big mistake I think every agency

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Adam O'Leary
makes. I've made it so many times in my life. It's important to remember those things, because as you're looking to start scaling, once you say, okay, let's test the waters, let's actually start growing this thing, once you start getting there, each of those little cracks in your business starts to show. When you go from three clients to 10 clients,

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Adam O'Leary
that's a huge escalation, especially if there's a problem. If you go from 10 clients to 25 clients, that's the other huge crack you're going to face. They're all different pains. From three clients to 10 clients, you're going to experience totally different pains. Something at the three-client mark is going to feel like a

[00:33:03:16 - 00:34:06:14]
Adam O'Leary
problem where you're in the business. You're not hiring out, you don't have the systems in place properly. Then you get there and it's, okay, great, 10. There was a little crack you didn't even notice at three clients, but once you get to 10, now it's like an earthquake split the ground in half. It goes three to 10, 10 to 25. That's what we've seen over and over for agencies. Those benchmarks are typically it. And then from 25 plus, that's all about managing teams. But it is interesting. What you're doing, Jesse, I've got to hand it to you. It's fantastic. The way you're helping your clients structure this and systematize their business so they can break out. So once they're freed up of their time and they're able to start taking on clients and taking on a lot of partners sending them business, they can come over to me, and I can help them with that next part of the process. And then once their business starts to break again, send them back to you.

[00:34:06:14 - 00:34:08:04]
(All Laughing)

[00:34:09:15 - 00:34:12:12]
Jesse Gilmore
Seems like a partnership is forming on the podcast.

[00:34:12:12 - 00:34:13:21]
(All Laughing)

[00:34:13:21 - 00:34:29:01]
Jesse Gilmore
I'm all in, Adam. I'm all in. This is cool. Well, Adam, for someone listening who's an agency owner, let's say they have those cracks figured out and now they're ready. What's the best way for people to get in touch with you?

[00:34:29:01 - 00:34:43:11]
Adam O'Leary
Go to scalewithpartners.io. That's the fastest way to get in touch with me. Once again, that's scalewithpartners.io. You can go there and schedule a time on my calendar,

[00:34:44:15 - 00:35:29:06]
Adam O'Leary
and I look forward to talking with you. We'll make sure your offer is actually good to go, identify who your ideal partners are, and sit down together to figure out who those perfect partners are and a path to start landing them. We do that all on the first call, just to make sure you have it. We can review each of the potential partners you have, and if you say, look, I would love these guys, these are absolutely who I want sending me business, then we can talk further from there. But the first part is making sure we have that clarity on who your perfect person is, that you do have that niche nailed down. Because that makes a huge difference with partnerships.

[00:35:29:06 - 00:35:33:10]
Jesse Gilmore
So for everybody listening who wants to get in touch with Adam, that's scalewithpartners.io.

[00:35:35:18 - 00:35:41:05]
Jesse Gilmore
I'll include the link in the show notes. Adam, I have a feeling we're probably going to have you on the podcast again.

[00:35:42:16 - 00:35:42:17]
(Laughing)

[00:35:42:17 - 00:35:46:08]
Jesse Gilmore
Adam, thank you so much for your time, and thanks for being on Leverage for Growth.

[00:35:46:08 - 00:35:48:05]
Adam O'Leary
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Jesse.

[00:35:48:05 - 00:35:50:08]
(Upbeat Music)